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Special Online APDA Meeting: May 11 @ 12:00 PM EST

Pages:12

Ok the vote fails 16 pro-10 opposed (needs 2/3rds to pass)

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20

The next thing we will talk about is abolishing noty. As a reminder, we have already had extensive discussions about this and people are already messaging indicating they are getting ready to leave the meeting, so please hold comments to a minimum and post in 5 minutes.

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20

Motion to open discussion? Recieved a second.

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20

I know I've already spoken pretty extensively on this, but just to summarize a couple of reasons NOTY is dumb and should be abolished.

  1. Social
    1. Noty creates artificial divisions between novices at a time when we are trying to form friendships. This is particularly bad because NOTY tends (or at least this year tended) to favor novices from more established teams that had better access to coaching resources. Novices who need retention the most because they're from smaller/less established/less funded teams have less access to it because noty creates social hierarchies.
    2. NOTY creates social hierarchies!! problems with rep begin novice year and we should stop them novice year. I genuinely believe this is a first step to fixing apda culture as a whole-- if you think rep is a problem or feel ignored by "reppy" people in GA, you should vote to ban.
  2. Personal
    1. You put a ton of pressure on yourself to succeed when you're on the noty board. This is pressure I think we can all agree is better suited to people who already have non-competitive reasons to continue debating. If we implicitly teach novices to only value success, they'll quit when they reach the inevitable sophomore slump.
    2. As Mia pointed out in the long forum post, you really can't opt out of noty (awards are really variable, you only need one or two markers to get on the board, etc). This means that unlike other OTYs, I'd argue NOTY is uniquely competitive which make novice conditions worse.

Please vote to ban this. I'm the person who is supposedly benefitted and based on my own narrow experience, it sucks. Also, based on the other forum post, I'm far from the only person on NOTY board to feel this way. If the novices don't like it I really don't see a reason for varsities to vote for it for nostalgia or whatever. As long as we keep novice speaker awards (which people seem to be in favor of) I think we mitigate a lot of the harms without sacrificing things like funding, etc.

edit: typos

I'll make this fast:

Everyone has made up their minds, and no matter how persuasive you think you are you probably aren't gonna sway anyone. If someone is actually on the fence, I'd recommend just rereading the thread before voting.

Quote from Tanay Patri on May 11, 2019, 1:37 pm

I'll make this fast:

Everyone has made up their minds, and no matter how persuasive you think you are you probably aren't gonna sway anyone. If someone is actually on the fence, I'd recommend just rereading the thread before voting.

+1000

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20

Everyone has anecdotes about how NOTY has affected them and I respect the experiences everyone has had. It's also not true that all novices on NOTY are opposed to NOTY - I know Maxwell likes it, and we had like what, 6 or 7 novices comment on the original thread? The problem is even just having novices commenting on it doesn't actually capture the full population of novices who could possibly be affected by NOTY. To that end, I recommend what was functionally agreed to by both sides in the big thread where we discussed abolishing NOTY: that there should be a survey to test the impact NOTY has on current and former novices. This would have the benefit of actually aggregating all of the anecdotes people have into real data about whether the arguments people make abolishing NOTY actually occur. I’m not really convinced by any of the arguments against having a survey - so let’s do that and then come back to discuss banning NOTY when we have something more than anecdotes.

Edit: clarity

Quote from Drew Harrington on May 11, 2019, 1:38 pm
Quote from Tanay Patri on May 11, 2019, 1:37 pm

I'll make this fast:

Everyone has made up their minds, and no matter how persuasive you think you are you probably aren't gonna sway anyone. If someone is actually on the fence, I'd recommend just rereading the thread before voting.

+1000

booooo jumping in line

WW81 voting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-vlDfIfUgDdFATy0BOVh75Q_NuQWTY7LbO9O5BW4Rxs/edit?usp=sharing

There is a motion to vote and second

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeo99Kq24RQzXmXh2PCFga_s-RCKkRkdcZKMGA3tNjxrft26A/viewform?usp=sf_link

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20

do we have language for what we're actually voting on?

(note that precedent on this is that we can vote without language, but we actually have to ratify the language at a future apda meeting)

WW81 voting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-vlDfIfUgDdFATy0BOVh75Q_NuQWTY7LbO9O5BW4Rxs/edit?usp=sharing
Quote from Andrew Hamilton on May 11, 2019, 1:45 pm

do we have language for what we're actually voting on?

Yeah we do, but it's just removing relevant portions from the bylaws -- it's p straightforward, nothing that actually has linguistic value

Ok there was an error with the form, everyone needs to revote, with their names

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeo99Kq24RQzXmXh2PCFga_s-RCKkRkdcZKMGA3tNjxrft26A/viewform?usp=sf_link

 

 

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20

Ok the motion fails 13-13.

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20
Quote from Drew Harrington on May 11, 2019, 1:54 pm

Ok the motion fails 13-13.

rip

Ben Feshbach | Brandeis '19 | APDA Member-at-Large, 2017-2018

We have received a motion to close the meeting and a second.

 

Thank you all for showing up to the APDA meeting. I'll see you all at Binghamton!

Andrew Harrington APDA President 19-20, UChicago '20
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